After8
4:33 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Particularly sad to be arguing over politics at Christmas. Some of you need a day off.
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Nurse Ratched
4:21 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Sensible policy. Why on earth should you?
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Infidel
4:20 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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The central issue here is how you help the poor.
The idea that you help them by handing them money, welfare or any form of charity is misguided.
To give an example, we (the West) have given around one trillion dollars of aid to sub Saharan Africa in my lifetime. It has made no difference whatsoever to levels of poverty. In fact there are about 250 million more people living in absolute poverty in Africa today than before we started firehosing aid at them.
Similarly hand outs to the poor in this country keep them entrenched in dependency. They lose the motivation to get up and make something of their lives because they can live without it.
The best help we can give them is to force them to look for work. Work liberates them from dependency on benefits and allows them to make something of their lives.
It doesn't sound like help but it depends on how you define help. Do you define it as how much is transferred from person A to person B?Or do you define it by its effectiveness in changing lives?
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WHOicidal Maniac
3:00 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Nurse Ratched 2:20 Fri Dec 26
Fortunately for me I dont give a Tinkers cuss what moves you, or what you think...
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Capitol Man
2:56 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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The question of birth is important though. Te focus of benefits is on families and the young, not the single person, who really doesn't do that well by them.
Do you condemn the children of the "poor" to virtually zero life chances because you give them substandard support during the vital development years.
In a wider context you just end up creating a large, low-skilled underclass which just ends up costing you in the long run - not only overtly, but in terms of lost opportunity and overall competitiveness.
Hair-sniffing and alphas??
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:48 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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, 2:12 Fri Dec 26
You're at it now. Inventing hypothetical rich people and deciding they are all not only undeserving but also ungrateful.
If there no end to your envy?
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:46 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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, 2:12 Fri Dec 26
Of course he has set himelf up as arbiter. It was him who decided the wealthy in his post were 'underserving'
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Nurse Ratched
2:20 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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The important thing is, you feel really REALLY good about yourself now because of some pixels you caused to be assembled on a website.
What a worm I am for not being moved by your sentiments.
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,
2:12 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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How has he set himself up as arbiter. To me he has implied that some wealthy people may not deserve it and in a similar way some poorer people do not deserve their plight.
For example does a Prince deserve to be rich simply because of accident of birth? We don't choose who we are born to it's simply luck but it I'll hoves those born to rich parents thinking that they deserve it.
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WHOicidal Maniac
2:08 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Nurse Ratched 2:04 Fri Dec 26
If ALL I did was to say trite bollocks you'd have a point...but you dont, and to try and denigrate it to some form of ego boost that the 'chicks would love' ...well thats a bit embarrassing really.
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WHOicidal Maniac
2:06 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero 2:01 Fri Dec 26
Why the hell do people work in Soup kitchens, donate to foodbanks and Volunteer for homeless charities?
Is it because people realise that there is something bigger and more nobler to achieve than saying.."I got mine, your fault if you aint got yours"
I can not be dealing with that mentality regardless of how pie in the sky it sounds...
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Nurse Ratched
2:04 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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'Wanting to do good'.
Interesting. As far as I can make out, all Maniac did there was type out a lot of sentimental tripe on a messageboard. I am sure it made him feel good about himself, though. And maybe that was the point of it. I am not sure it's of much practical use to our modern-day 'destitutes'.
But Maniac should definitely persevere with all that 'caring Beta' schtick. Chicks really dig all that. They will flock to him and let him cuddle them and secretly sniff their hair after Infidel the Alpha fucks them and dumps them.
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
2:01 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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WHOicidal Maniac 1:04 Fri Dec 26
'How the hell is it not the duty of men to look after their fellow man?'
Why on earth would a person work for his dinner if someone is going to give it to him for nothing?
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SurfaceAgentX2Zero
1:58 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Dapablo 12:25 Fri Dec 26
'The poor do look after themselves they just need a little help to do so, especially if they're surrounded by people with wealth who don't deserve it.'
In a bizarre return to Victorian values, Dapablo has established the concepts of deserving and underserving wealthy and set himself up as the sole arbiter.
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WHOicidal Maniac
1:55 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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, 1:36 Fri Dec 26
Because it shows their own world view.
I get why people are like that, just bloody glad I aint. Imagine "living" in a world where you are forced by your own opinions to be negative towards everything.
This brings me back to the Kippers...
The dismantling and destruction of this Great Britain is so prevalent in your minds because it suits your personality to seek out everything that is negative and backs up your own world view, regardless of its truthfulness, it becomes your truth.
And like Gandhi said, "Be the change you want to see in the world"
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,
1:36 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Why does someone wanting to do good nauseate you?
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Nurse Ratched
1:09 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Any more of this syrup and violins from Maniac, and I might throw up my breakfast mince pie.
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WHOicidal Maniac
1:04 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Infidel 12:40 Fri Dec 26
Same attitude though isnt it.
Im alright, fuck everyone else. Peoples life changes at the drop of a hat and quite often the safety net of Social care and the welfare system is just not there to cushion the fall, certainly in the short term, when people need it the most. To ask people to be responsible for their own lives is stupid to say the least when the whole of society is geared up to make people dependent when they fall.
To say that its not the duty of the wealthy to look after the poor is exactly the wrong attitude.
How the hell is it not the duty of men to look after their fellow man? How is it not an obligation for a man that has to offer a hand to the have nots...
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The Kronic
12:42 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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WHOicidal Maniac 12:32
Yeah but Scrooge was a lot funnier when he was a right wing tight-arse capitalist before turning into a do gooding, bleedin' heart socialist.
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Joke Whole
12:40 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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Infidel 12:16 Fri Dec 26
In simple terms, it means I make money out of the poor choosing activities that they don't absolutely nailed-on need to do (although many will try to inflate a vacuous argument in support of some of those activities).
For instance, if you only ever get one e-mail of importance a day but you check your in-box via your mobile phone every 5 minutes "just in case".
Such frequent checking is effectively throwing money away, but it's not MY role to tell you not to do so.
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Infidel
12:40 Fri Dec 26
Re: Farage V Brand
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WHOicidal
Dickens wrote that in 1843, before universal education, the welfare state and free healthcare.
In the 1840s destitution was a way of life for most of the country. Even a century later things were not much better, as anyone who has read The Road To Wigan Pier (1937) will know.
But we don't live in that age now do we?
My point is that today there is really no excuse for destitution. You have a roof over your head,a warm bed and enough money from the state to buy food, and if you get sick you will be treated free of charge, so all the basic needs of humanity are met.
The vast majority of destitute people today are either the victims of their own poor life decisions or just too lazy to take advantage of the myriad opportunities they have to better themselves. They are not remotely comparable with the poor of Dickens' era.
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